two words come to mind for me. one is responsibility, the other is purpose. it's just so inspiring to do research that impacts human lives. stand up to cancer has been a critical partner in advancing research for cancer. cancer research saves lives. so please help us fight in this battle against cancer. >> that is all the time i have today, i'm alicia menendez, thank you for spending part of your saturday with us, be sure to follow the show on twitter, instagram and on tiktok. we are at alicia on msnbc. i will see you tomorrow for more american voices. but for now, i handed over to my colleague, eamonn mighty. hello, i'm. and >> it's good to see. either way for a couple of weeks. what kind of way to come back and you turn get caught up on work, i'm thinking, what do i

start? with its the debt ceiling, do i go into the presidential politics, the candidates in the gop field? do i look at the investigation, the special counsel investigation? what do i start? with you tell me. >> i will tell you that point, the rnc, first debate is -- this august? like, are we there already? when did that happen? >> we are there, we are officially there, my friend. >> have a good show. welcome back, we must. you >> good to see you, enjoy the rest of your evening off. good evening, welcome to ayman tonight. warning, there are tapes, new reporting on the incriminating trump reporting about a classified document he had in his possession, after he left the white house. and then, the porcelain candidate. that is around desantis is being described after refusing to engage with reporters. but how long can he hide in his safe space? and republican rollback, the latest gop trend is loosening child labor laws. i will speak to democratic

senator john hickenlooper, one of the most outspoken critics of that effort, and much more. let's get started. caught on tape. in understanding the development, an msnbc news can now confirm that jackson's office has attended audio recording of donald trump admitting but he retained classified document from his time at the white house. now, on that tape, trump acknowledges he was in possession of a sensitive military documents, related to iran and confirmed that it was classified. msnbc news reports's been in a july 20 21st meeting at trump's golf club in new jersey, with people who were helping ex witness chief of staff mark meadows wright's memoir. nbc news has not heard the tape but can't report that it has been provided to the grand jury

investigating the matter. of course, trump denied knowing anything about this and said that everything that he did, with classified documents, was quote, right. trump might claim he does not know anything, but that does not mean that the recording does not exist. and if it does, it would strike at the core of his defense, that trump has long maintained he had the constitutional authority as a commander-in-chief to declassify all material he took with him when he left the white house. believe it or not, even last year, he claimed he could declassified documents just by quote, thinking about it. but on the state, he explicitly mentions the material is still classified. several sources told the guardian during that recording, trump could be her talking about how he could not discuss the details of the document, because he no longer possesses the sweeping presidential power to declassify. according to the guardian, trump expressed regret about not declassifying the document

what he had the chance. this suggests trump not only knew that he had retained material which was sensitive to national security, but was also well aware of the limitations around him in discussing it, and the proper declassification process. you can't think you're way out of a declassification. remember, this was 2021. this was months before trump was forced to hand over several boxes of documents to the national archives. more than one year before mar-a-lago was ultimately raided by fbi agents who recovered even more secret and highly classified documents. to make matters worse, there is new reporting from the new york times which suggests the secret material trump referenced in the 2021 meeting might still be missing, may still be at large. now, late yesterday, the times reported after learning about this recording, federal prosecutors subpoenaed to trump's lawyers, seeking the documents return. trump's legal team has now

informed the justice department they were unable to find any such records in his possession. so, as more details emerge, and the timeline of this continues to become clearer by the day, trump's handling of this seems to be a not to do. i mean, all you have to do is look at mike pence. he was also accused of mishandling documents and classified material, nbc news now reports the justice department has closed its investigation into pence with no charges filed. i guess you could make the argument that mike pence did things by the book. he returned the materials to the authorities, he agreed to cooperate with the investigators. in fact, he even sat down for an interview. not that the investigation has run its course, he could put that matter behind him. , the same cannot be said for donald trump. let's bring in my panel this evening, former congressman and republican congressman, carlos

curbelo, former federal prosecutor, and the professor of law at new york university, co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast. all three are of course msnbc analysts. great to have you all with. cynthia, let's start with breaking down the latest for us, the impact that this tape could have on jack smith's case. >> well first of all, just for jump street, let me say jack smith's case is good. let's remember that. let's also remember that, zach classified document is not classified for the statutes we are talking about the trump will likely be charged with. so with that in mind, this tape might ease trump's waters. the way that it does it is either he is admitting he has classified documents, which is illegal, he is not returning them even though they have been requested, he now has this story that they can't find it. that's also remember he has

lied to his lawyers in the past. so you can't really trust, the lawyers can't find it because, he has misled his lawyers in the past. or, and, or, he made the whole thing up because he was mad at general milley and he needed to come up with a quick lie to explain his behavior, which would not be shocking, given what we just saw in the e. jean carroll case. also, it highlights as you did, he understands the difference with the classification that he doesn't have the power to always do it. so it muddies his waters in many different ways. jack smith already has a strong case for the espionage act, the retaining of documents act. the 1001 having an agent lied to the doj for him, and the obstruction. so i think it makes, it makes the memo longer, but the memo is pretty complete. >> congressman, let's talk about confidential material for

a moment. you served as a lawmaker, you had access to confidential material, you had intelligence briefings. what do you make of these reports that trump allegedly handled a sensitive military document in a room full of biographers, clearly people who i would say, you know, safe to say at least did not have the proper security clearances. does that pose a possible national security threat that donald trump has a document allegedly showing something militarily to do with iran in his possession, outside of a secure zone? >> it could, ayman. this is clear this is why donald trump did this. he wanted to take these documents, maybe to both that we have them, to show off, who knows he wanted to monetize these documents for this information so that is why his case is complicated. i think in the case of former vice president pence, it's clear this was something, careless for sure, let me tell you. one thing congress does better than the executive's handle

classified material. members of congress are not walking around with classified material, taking classified material to their homes. there is a scif facility at the capitol, where you review classified information. you leave it there, you cannot take it. the executive branch really has to learn a little bit from congress in this regard. but in trump's case, yes, he is out there, talking about this information, showing off, telling people about it. and of course this could pose a serious threat to national security. it could get people killed. >> melissa, let me ask you about this revelation, yesterday, that document that trump discussed on this report the recording has still been located. and if the material is still missing, how does that impact the case? >> so again, i think it is important here, if you cannot find this document, if it is still missing, you still make the case that something has not

been turned over properly. it has gone missing, which might strengthen jackson's case about the attention of documents issue, to the point the congressman dismayed, it's not simply that the retention of these documents, the careless handling poses real concern for national security in terms of those in the field who might be compromised, because this is handled so loosely. again, it's also in the losing of this document, it might underscore, meaning our allies cannot trust us with this kind of information going forward. it makes it much harder for members of the intelligence community to function, to work with foreign intermediaries to keep us safe. so there is a lot here. all of it goes to those questions around the nature of this act, which is about preventing national security information from being carelessly handled, compromising the national security, more broadly, focusing on the idea that those in control of these documents have to control them safely, they cannot withhold them willfully or knowingly. they>> such an important point u

brought up, which is besides the legal aspect of all of this, our allies are watching thinking, my goodness, if we gave the americans any secretive information it might end up in mar-a-lago. who knows where else? cynthia, after this news broke, it was expected that mike pence, when news broke of mike pence's investigation, you had trump react on truth social. he did it quickly, he posted this, asking, when am i going to be fully exonerated, i am at least as innocent as he is. let's talk about the differences in these cases. i think time make people forget, these are very different cases. even if there were any similarities, donald trump was asked to hand over documents, asked to cooperate. the only reason why we are at this point is because, a subpoena was issued on him and his lawyers did not cooperate. ultimately, this led to the fbi raid. they're a different, even if they started from the same point, the results and outcomes have been very different.

>> right. i don't think they started at the same point. let's just say they did for arguments sake. what is shows you is when you find documents you are not supposed to have, and if you call the department of justice and tell them, if you allow a voluntary search instead of blocking one, if you don't have your lawyers lie to the doj, and instead they tell the truth, if you agree to an interview, instead of hiding, if you do not move boxes around secretly, if you don't have security tapes that are a, not turnover properly, and be, might have gaps in them, if you don't talk to difference choice but what happened and makeup nonsense stories about how you classify them, then a light will shine upon you in the department of justice. [laughter] that is what happened, the light! you know, the department of justice is busy, they don't have time to prosecute it isn't people! >> i was going to say. and i feel like the department of justice will probably give former executives, you know, officers in the executive

branch the benefit of the doubt like we did with mike pence. >> there is no time to prosecute these people, cooperating, doing the right thing! even if you want to. they are too busy! >> melissa, let me ask you about the new reporting from the new york times regarding jack smith investigations. this time, into trump's alleged election subversion efforts. the times are reporting that smith had subpoenaed staff members from the trump white house, who may have been involved in firing the government's top security official, we all got to go very well, favre's after his agency judged the election as quote, the most secure in american history. that is of course at odds with how the trump narrative was around the election. how does the firing of krebs go into this broader case around election interference? >> hard to say, given we don't know the contours of that case. but you could imagine, based on what we do know part of the firing of crabs, that donald

trump did not want any information with discredited his own discredited theory of how the election was stolen from them, by joe biden. having a top cybersecurity guy say they were no cybersecurity problems, this was a safe, we'll conduct election, and when that was made, presented to him, then he later fired this individual. it appears more like retaliation and go to this question of intent. donald trump knows what he is saying was false, and going forward, stating those falsehoods even in the face of very credible -- credible evidence, saying in fact it was not the case the election was stolen. >> congressman, quickly, i will see people here, for republicans like jim jordan, being seriously weaponization, investigating weaponization's of the government, wouldn't the firing of krebs be a good place to start? >> 100%, ayman. what is shocking is so many republicans have rushed to endorse donald trump, even florida republicans, with all

of these controversy, scandals and criminal exposure surrounding him. they are not going to use these committees to investigate trump or any of the people around him. instead, they rushed to endorse donald trump, someone who by the time primary season comes around, might have been indicted three times. >> let's say, it's not a profile encouraged by jim jordan. stick around, a lot more to discuss after the break. we will discuss the growing chaos engulfing trump's legal team. lets her pick exactly what she wants, and save on every perk. sadie's getting her plan ready for a big trip. travel pass, on. nice iphone 14 pro! cute couple. trips don't last forever. neither does summer love. so, sadie's moving on. apple music? check. introducing myplan. the first and only unlimited plan to give you exactly what you want,

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have always had a fraught relationship with their client, and each other, quite frankly. but they've never seen this legal team as fractured as it was this week. according to a recording from the guardian, former trump lawyer, told a grand jury he had been steered away from looking inside of trump's office as he searched mar-a-lago for classified documents in response to a justice department subpoena. the guardian says that corcoran did not specify who waved him off of the search, but months later as we now know, the fbi ended up seizing more than 100 classified documents, including in that office, but he was told to not search. so the guardian says this suggested that corcoran was materially misled as the special counsel jack smith says

whether he's in complete search was actually a ploy by trump to retain classified documents. this comes as rolling stone -- excuse me, rolling stone report that trump has asked at least one of his personal attorney's and close advisers if that person knew the names of senior fbi agents and justice department personnel who are working on the federal probes investigation. trump said he wanted the doj to purge those officials, if he was reelected. on top of all of, that there is new anxiety within the trump legal team but somebody among them is a double agent, and already cooperating with federal investigators. who knows? how did they get that recording in the first place? my panel is back with me. cynthia, let me start with you, with corcoran here, based on the guardian recording, you have this former trump lawyer saying he was told that mar-a-lago, the storage room was the only location which classified documents were stored. he was waved off searching

other locations on the location. if you are jacks mitt, what do you make of that? >> what i make of it is what jack smith has already made of it, which is that he has figured out that there is a crime for all exceptions, and he went to having a federal judge to agree with him, he had a notes. i can't tell you how rare that is. and obviously, he is suspicious of the information that corcoran is getting from his client. then recognized as well, interesting. a bunch of red flags that corcoran knew he had a problem. first of all, when it came time to write the statement which said there were no more documents here, no more, he drafted it but would not even sign it. okay, that is a red flag. then, he gives it to another lawyer, who said 1 million other problems, she wouldn't sign, and lord knows she would

sign anything. and that was some kind of a disclaimer. now we also know, which shows there is a huge problem, that corcoran has been in the grand jury, and also kept meticulous, long no. it's like he was writing a novel or something about every conversation that he had, he audiotaped am. and they have been transcribed and given to the grand jury. so it was so detailed, is beyond lawyers notes. that is another red flag, he knows he is dealing with somebody who is not being straight with him. so the federal judge has the relationship, he has those notes and now what's also happening in this crazy legal team, is that parlatore is quite. he's accusing this boris guy of constructing basically, accusing him of getting the information from edmonton. so this is a bunch of some kind

of beetles in a bottle together, and we will watch them fight it out. >> melissa, how strong is the case that trump willfully defied the justice department's subpoena here? >> again, we do not know the scope of the evidence that jack smith has over here. we know snippets of things, basically putting together a lot of these pieces. but it does seem pretty clear here based on the fact that evan corcoran is taking these notes surreptitiously, that he at least understood that he was not being given correct, or at least accurate information about what was being responsive to the subpoena. so that is really material here given that the big part of the case we think jack smith is trying to make against the former president really turns a lot on his intent. did he know that he was keeping these documents willfully, and unlawfully? that is a big part of what is going on here. i think that's a huge part of this case. >> carlos, i always say with republicans, certainly the

front of republicans, it is all about projection. what they do is actually just project, especially when it comes to the issue of weaponization. what do you make of trump allegedly discussing a potential purge of doj and fbi officials, who are tasked with investigating him, if you were to get back into the white house? >> i will tell you that really hits home for me, ayman. my family had to flee cuba in 1959 because institutions collapsed, because an illegitimate government took over and started purging people. e. this is so anti-american, so shocking to hear somebody say, not just say it. you know he intends to do it because we saw some of that during his last days in office. and our institutions are strong in america, eamonn. but institutions rely on people who are willing to play with

the rules. that's what i don't like when people diminish what mike pence did on the 6th of january, even someone like mitch mcconnell who stood up and said no, we can't do this. i know people have a lot of disagreements for other reasons, but institutions require people who are willing to play by the rules. and donald trump knows no rules. he is willing to point people to do whatever it takes to retain power. for me, given my family's history, that is very disconcerting. >> we don't have institutions, we don't have a society. carlo curbelo, cynthia alksne, melissa murray, thank you for joining us this evening. up next, democratic congressman joins me to discuss the debt limit deal, why he voted in support of it, stay with us. t, stay with us. really? dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate.

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and economic collapse. in this debate, i refused to put what was responsible for all of this economic progress on the chopping block. i've never been more interested about america's future. >> that was president biden last night, using his first oval office address to tout the passing of the heavily contested it debt ceiling bill. today, he signed it into law, avoiding a caucus catastrophic default, days before the treasury department's fiscal deadline. the bill passed across bipartisan lines in the senate, 63 to 36 with 31 republican voting against it. the house saw more republican defections, with 71 no votes. and the blow back from far-right republicans, as you can imagine, happen fast and swift, with many feeling betrayed by speaker mccarthy for not coming through on their demands for more concessions. some even threatened to oust him from the speakership. this was not a win by any stretch of the imagination for mccarthy, as some are casting it. he might have secured an agreement with joe biden, but it cost him support from a

section of his caucus which is already skeptical of his leadership. as the new york times put it, the delivery of this deal was quote, not pretty. in fact it was downright ugly. he managed to do so only with significant help from across the aisle as democrats rescued him on a key procedural vote, and then provide the support needed for passage. joining me now to discuss this is democratic congressman, brad schneider. of illinois, he voted in favor of the debt ceiling. congressman, great to see you again. thanks for coming back on the show. we will get into the specifics in a moment, but make the case for us of why you supported this bill. >> well thank you for having me on it tonight as well. the bottom line is we avoided a catastrophic default which would've cost millions of jobs for small businesses to close, it would've devastated our economy and role in the world. we should have never been in this place, the republicans tried to hold the country and economy hostage. at the end of the day, we got a

compromise deal, found common ground. we save the economy, protect social security, medicare, medicaid and we live to fight another day. >> as you are fully aware, some of your colleagues, perhaps progressives voted against the bill, including a fellow congresswoman delia ramirez of illinois, who called the concessions cool policies that will punish everyday people. you also describe that we should not have gotten into this position, i think a lot of people can agree, republicans did hold us hostage. but if they hold us hostage to get the concessions, does that not mean that they won? >> not at all. at the end of the, as president biden said, i never thought i would hear president biden quote mick jagger, but you don't always get what you want, but you get what you need. the bottom line is we protected social security, we protected it democratic priorities including the infrastructure investment jobs act, pact act, chips and science act as well as the inflation reduction act.

all those things we accomplished with the last congress which were historic pieces of legislation, we continue to move forward on each and every one of those. what i agree with delia is there are people who will be hurt by some of the concessions which were made, we have to go back and fight to make sure we bring everyone forward, we let nobody fall through the cracks, in particular, minority communities, particular, women over age 50 who are specifically targeted by this, and among those, it will be black women disproportionately affected. >> does it bother you at all, i think some americans would probably not be aware of the included things like extending a pipeline from west virginia into southern virginia, things which has nothing necessarily to do with the debt ceiling. is that part of the process, to make it difficult for americans to believe in this process as a compromise as opposed to simply trading with one another? i mean, seeing the concessions which were made here, how does this administration make the case going forward that the

democratic party has the best interest of the american people at heart here? >> sure. i was disappointed the pipeline was included as part of this package. but as president biden noted, this agreement was made with senator manchin to pass the inflation reduction act. and that act, had the largest investment in climate change in our nation's history, 360 plus billion dollars, including my legislation to support sustainable aviation fuel. it is a huge step forward. sometimes, you have to make compromises or find ways to bring people along. part of leading is finding people who will not agree with you entirely, but find a way to come onto the path you are trying to take them. and i think the president did exactly that. at the end of the day, you had 165 democrats in the house vote for this bill, 149 republicans and 63 senators passed this bill on thursday, the president signed yesterday or today, i guess. >> do you believe kevin mccarthy helped or hurt the process here? the biden administration, at

least some officials have said privately, he proved to be a stronger adversary in these negotiation talks that had been expected? what are your thoughts on how he came out in this? >> so i was not in negotiations. if i look at the outcome, first, i will criticize the speaker for putting us in this position, for bringing us to the brink, we should've resolve this months ago. but the president said in negotiations, people were open and honest, people made hard choices which is part of what compromise and finding common ground is all about. also, they stuck by their word. and in any type of negotiation, you are only as good as your word. and if you will have future negotiations, you need to stand by what you say, and live up to the promises you make. >> it is clear the gop is divided here. is it possible that you can continue working with the other side of the aisle, when there was extreme house members as you said, bring us to the brink

of this disaster, and threatening to oust kevin mccarthy every time he disagrees with them? >> mccarthy is earning this and in time i've been in congress. he has a chaotic conference, that is his challenge. what i do know is that nearly two thirds of republicans in the house voted for this package, three quarters of the democrats, 95% of the new, moderate democrats led the way, making sure we got through that procedural vote, making sure we had enough votes to go to the presidents desk. >> democratic congressman brad schneider of illinois, always a pleasure, thank you for making time. >> thank you. >> i had, ron desantis is becoming known as the coat porcelain candidate. we will tell you why, next. l tell you why, next u'd like to be. like here. and here. and here. not so much here.

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first full week as a 2024 presidential contender, hitting the campaign trail with visits to iowa and new hampshire. and he desperately needed to make a good impression to voters after this disastrous announcement. >> it keeps crashing, right? >> i think we are back online. >> right.

all right, it is certainly an incredible honor to have governor desantis make this announcement. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> oh man, that was painful. well, desantis's calamitous campaign launch, that livestreamed on elon musk's twitter space, as you see right there, as we all know by now, chalk full of crashes and glitches. after a 25 minute technical delay, desantis finally got the moment that is political team had you know, spent weeks, maybe months negotiating for, preparing for, excited for. they were fewer than 70,000 viewers remaining. that is a significantly smaller audience and in this traditional for a major presidential campaign launch by any stretch of the imagination. now for a moment, let's put aside that embarrassing tech failure to talk about what perhaps was the most bizarre

part of the spectacle, petition to want presidential campaign via an audio only so should be a stream, but only a small portion of the american electorate actually still uses. axios called the on to the latest example of the sentence's campaign, 24 media strategy, what they dubbed a quote save space strategy. so the man who has done everything's power to destroy any semblance of safe spaces for marginalized communities in florida, is basically now attempting to carry out his president campaign from the safety of a conservative friendly cocoon. his insular media operation is repeatedly turned down interview requests from national media outlets, with interviewers who no doubt would hold him to account, at least ask the tough questions he's so desperately trying to avoid. is that, he has access from far-right outlets, which seems

to be the only thing we are hearing from, like the little known for a publication, the florida standard, which reports suggest was cooked up by desantis's own donors to be a pro desantis platform. this is not a process he designed just for his presidential campaign, it's been building over years as governor. this year alone, he signed at least three major pieces of legislation, in private, giving no advanced media notice. not the national or florida media. the closed-door signing's future bills restricting abortion access, legalizing permit-less concealed carry, expanding flores controversial school voucher program. this is not because desantis is afraid of the blow back from these bills. he has already been using them as a campaign for. instead, it is part of this desperate attempt to try to control the narrative that it's around him. see, these private signings give desantis the opportunity

to feed the conservative culture war machine on his own terms. that kind of strategy does not work in the real world. it certainly will not work on the campaign trail, not for the president. look what happened this week in new hampshire, when desantis faced something foreign to him -- a question, from a reporter! >> why not take any questions from voters, governor? governor, how don't you are not taking questions from voters? >> what are you talking? about what are you talking? about i meet with people, are you blind, are you? blind people are coming up to me, people are talking to me about whatever they want to talk about. >> so much for a good impression, there is a difference between a reporter and someone coming up to talk to iran desantis. this is ron desantis's first week as a declared candidate, he already has a temper tantrum on the campaign trail. this political puts it quote, dissent is now confirms the perception that he is a porcelain candidate --

glazed, decorative, durable enough but not really built to withstand the blunt impact of trump's hammer, the full fury of the united democratic party. desantis is safe space strategy can only team so far, even if he's able to squeak by any gop primary, once he enters the general election, he will need to reach far more voters than what conservative outlets can deliver for him. at some point, he will be forced to emerge from his safe space and actually deal with the real world, a world with much tougher questions than what he faced this week. that moment could prove to be too much for this porcelain candidate. we will be right back. will be right back. sadie's getting her plan ready for a big trip. travel pass, on. nice iphone 14 pro! cute couple. trips don't last forever. neither does summer love. so, sadie's moving on. apple music? check. introducing myplan. the first and only unlimited

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live your best day, every day with the power of the gelflex grid. sleep better. live purple. >> all right, there is an alarming trend in america. republican led states are rolling back child labor laws, believe it or not. in fact, ten states have introduced or passed laws which we can child labor standards in the last two years. according to the economic policy institute, which is a nonpartisan, non profit think tank, there seems to be increased efforts in recent months. just last week in iowa, republican governor kim reynolds signed into a law allowing teenagers to work longer hours in previously banned hazardous conditions. teams will also be able to serve alcohol at restaurants. we will, the labor department reports there has been a 69% increase in labor law violations since 2018, digging into these numbers thanks investigations from nbc news and the new york times, many of

those violations stem from exploitation of migrant children by big companies. earlier, i spoke with senator john hickenlooper of colorado about this and much more. >> senator john hickenlooper, great to see you again, thank you for making time for us. you know, we often hear republicans tout parental rights when it comes to education. you know, they make the argument that book bans, drag show bands are in the supposed interest of protecting children. but now when you look at the loosening of these child labor laws across the country, it seems clear that republicans really do not have children in their interests at mind? >> i think there is no question that we are seeing a lack of rigor in terms of recognizing these are migrant children making them work long hours, dangerous situations, often at night. it is unacceptable.

children are, in this country, we believe that children need to be protected and held, recognize the need to be a higher level of care to make sure they are not put in risky situations. >> in april, i believe you and the senator sent a letter to 27 ceos, including those of general mills and target, demanding responses about their compliance with labor laws. have you received any response from them? how do you hold them accountable, especially as republicans are loosening these labor laws on a state level? >> well first, it should not happen. the fact that we are even writing the letters is a reflection of a problem that should not be here. we should not be dealing with this. we received responses to all but two of these companies.

they were carefully curated words written by lawyers. i think we will continue to pursue this, to follow up and make sure that these companies are doing everything that they can to make sure that children are not put into dangerous situations. >> and while republicans and these companies are often the faces of these disturbing trends, there is a piece in the washington post which outlines how conservative think tanks in groups such as the florida -based foundation for government accountability are really strong arms behind these laws, drafting legislation for lawmakers, working to process. is it possible to assess the broader problem when so much of the work is quite frankly, being done in secret, behind the scenes, away from the public eye? >> well, that is one of the problems we are dealing with on many levels. the fact that we have dark money working relentlessly to

try and eke out a higher level of profits for companies which should know better. i think in many cases, these were contract companies, working for much larger corporations. but these large corporations have to recognize that they are going to be held responsible for what happens in their facilities, even if it is by a company, coming into clean after hours on a contract basis. there has to be a level of accountability. and we will start looking at how we make sure we get that level of accountability. >> >> senator, let me switch gears for a moment and ask about the big news. the debt ceiling agreement. you voted for the bill. you also said the country should never have even come close to a default. unfortunately, republicans took us there this time around. why did you ultimately vote in favor of the deal? what needs to happen so we don't repeat this issue once again in 2025? >> i thought when it's a big

news, you would talk about the denver nuggets making the nba finals! nuggets>> we will get to that! >> just for a moment! but let's be frank, before faith and credit of the united states of america is an essential part of our economy, on every level. we should never let it be held hostage for moral purposes. that's not what happened here, i believe we should find a way to separate it. and once the federal government spends money, we are obligated to pay the debt. i am all for finding ways to reduce our spending, to make government more efficient, to make sure the deficit is reduced. but not at the expense of putting full faith and credit in the united states of america at risk. >> let me ask you another thing, before we get to the nba

playoffs, but president biden was just in colorado for the u.s. air force academy graduation. the air force has picks colorado for more space missions, as the decision is imminent on where to place the permanent headquarters of space command. what is the media's state is a beneficiary of all these missions? why do you make of how political the space command decision has become in recent years? >> well the question but whether to move space command from colorado is pretty much, where it's always been, since back in the late 20th century, and for the last several years, when it was reconstituted, it's always been in colorado springs. is there for a reason. there is an amazing concentration of aerospace and technology and intelligence capability in colorado springs. so the people working at space command, they are tasked to keep our satellites, and keep

in mind it is not just our cell phones that use those satellites and gps, but all of our defense systems are now dependent on those satellites. they are our highest priority as part of our national defense. we have to make sure that the team is in a place where they can get the maximum benefit from other like minded professionals. so other people working at high-levels in intelligence, aerospace. that ecosystem is what you find in colorado springs. that's what you put it there, that's why you keep it there. and then within a couple of months of what they call efficacy, full operational capability. given russia's invasion of ukraine, tensions with china, this is not a time to start moving one of our most key elements of our national defense, it doesn't make sense. so when president trump said he would move it because colorado didn't perform properly in his

opinion in the 2020 elections, that is the last thing that should ever happen with an important decision like this. it is so intimately connected to our national defense. >> senator john hickenlooper of colorado, thank you for your time, thank you for coming back on the show. >> my pleasure, thank you so. much so much huh, huh, so did their dog roger. ♪ ♪ gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest stuff smelling fresh. salonpas lidocaine flex. a super thin, flexible patch with maximum otc strength lidocaine that contours to the body to relieve pain right where it hurts. and did we mention, it really, really sticks? salonpas, it's good medicine.

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